##C++ haskell == plain english ?? [asking about C++ rules] vincenz: how should we know what those rules mean ? Snow doeth lay upon the lands. Even with cunning newtype; deriving the newtype is recursive. Great leaders brings less pain. Alanna Saying that Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders. Cale The perfect programming language is mathematics, but that only runs on mathematicians. Beware of the function [a] -> a. For it may contain trappes and sprynges of great variety and harm. ChilliX You need to seek a balance between category theory and VLSI ChrisKuklewicz Are there little known Haskell idioms for doing math? Is there an undocumented -funleash-fortran parameter? ChristopherHendrie Sometimes I wonder if Java will be indirectly responsible for hastening the adoption of functional programming languages DukeDave what, if your kids start doing drugs? or worse, business school Gahhh monads are usually a personal experience. HavocPennington Haskell is the least-broken programming language available today. Heffalump docs aren't all that useful, generally CPP leads to suffering Igloo [dons: anyone know what happened to [the] Haskell wishlist?] Igloo: Did it have "Crush Java" listed? Itkovian real programmers don't write docs, if it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand JaffaCake gcc is getting smarter, so we need to hit it with a bigger stick not all IOError -> String functions are created equal :) I'm afraid I'm completely IA64-ignorant (and hoping to remain that way until IA64 goes away :-) JohnMeacham There will also be a karaoke competition to determine the fate of the monomorphism restriction. Type theory makes totally awesome material for bar room shit talk. Last night I was at this dive bar listening to live music and there was this cute girl I was talking too while this guy was there, we started ribbing each other in the appropriate way when confronted with the situation of two guys talking to the same girl, and our jeers eventually turned technical until we were arguing about haskell, perl, and pugs development. it turning out he was one of the pugs de Korollary an olegweek is a complex entity with an imaginary part an olegweek is a complex entity with an imaginary part Lemmih calling an out-of-scope function isn't as easy as I had hoped Oleg The implementation of RSA on type level is left for future work PaulGraham An algorithm for lazy evaluation of research papers: Just write whatever you want and don't cite any previous work, and indignant readers will send you references to all the papers you should have cited. I get the impression that using [Haskell] would feel like reading a novel written by a literary critic. Philippa hey, if the guy wants a monadectomy that's his choice Pseudonym I think principal types are overrated Lazy evalution is really, really trippy. Well, personally, I don't think dumb people should be let near a programming language. S.Behrens or maybe she is the Queen of Sciences and he is the Mack Daddy. Computer science is the womanizer, and math is the pure-hearted girl he won't call the next day. SamB Because sliced bread gives horribly uninformative error messages? C is a good language. If what you want is an assembly language where you can't be sure what anything does fworp: next time, load your shirt up in to GHCi *before* having it printed Boy, point-free Arrows are worse than Forth... SebastianHanowski I tried to formalise a proof of rev (rev l) = l i found in W. Kluges book "Abstract Computing Machines - A Lambda Calculus Perspective" which is pretty much a 'Pimp My Ride' for SECD-machines. SyntaxNinja I think that the compiler authors will fly here from England just to kill me if I did that Taral But I can do DP in C, which has no RT How do you add an @quote? TuringTest They got it work in Haskell without understanding Haskell. It is quite an achievement, of some description. adept Tried to co-read and co-understand comonads, but got co-re dump I think I need cobrain to understand coeffects astrolabe I put my thing in inverted commas because it isn't a really stalactite, but it looks like one, and contains nitrates from urea. autrijus Mechanical and super-natty! Inspect the result and *if* happy; freeze, sell and get some sleep! Woot. I got larry wall started learning Haskell ;) Parrot is fine except every time I build it, it fails Well, ever since the monadic revolution of '98 Haskell people have started to do real world apps blackdog My variables aren't varying. I'm not encouraged by the comment "i don't know haskell, but CL is much better", though. it doesn't suggest careful thought and objectivity... i think coding in your sleep should trigger an exception chromatic My productivity increased when Autrijus told me about Haskell's trace function. He called it a refreshing desert in the oasis of referential transparency. cjs I have to explain this shit to people. I mean, I start out right, "Hey, you know how you always have these bugs because what you thought was in the variable is not there?" And I get all of these nods of agreement. "Well, I've found a new language that solves that problem." Audience: "Ooooh! How?" Me: "There's no variables!" And then they all start moving away from me slowly.... darius Well profiling does add a bit of reflection, but it should have the good sense not too go near the barbed wire fences and armed guards. I imagine XSLT programmers say "It's a one pager" the way most other programmers say "It's a one liner". dcnstrct even the #lisp people say go with haskell desrt man... there's this whole dark side to haskell that dr. kahl didn't teach us in 3e03 dons Haskell: The language that never sells out! ihope reaches level 4 hacker note to self: grep only works on disks but let is more lazy ;) who was it who said (shapr?) that they welcome their competitors using languages other than haskell? it's a bad sign if your enemies start coding in haskell! the type system is *great* for coding while sleepy.. you just hack any garbage together, and let the type checker deal with it boegel, stop polluting the quote-space please I don't mind autoconf, except for the fact that it's stupid and ugly gFunk [the main advantage of functional programs are that they're] incorrect the first 1000 times you try to compile it! ghc ld64: INFO 171: Multigot invoked. Gp relative region broken up into 2 separate regions. ld64: WARNING 47 : This module contains branch instruction(s) that might degrade performance on an R4000 processor. Unable to mmap( MAP_FIXED ) for Jump Islands Only unit numeric type pattern is valid yi-static: internal error: TSO object entered! deadlock: main thread blocked in a strange way Bad eta expand GHCi's bytecode generation machinery can't handle 64-bit code properly yet. Malformed predicate Can't happen accepting non-standard pattern guards (-fglasgow-exts to suppress this message) Bindings in hs-boot files are not allowed Pattern bindings (except simple variables) not allowed in instance declarations Simplifier reached fixed point In a RHS constructor application, con type doesn't match arg types In a case expression, type of scrutinee does not match patterns Offending Program WARNING: SE CAFs unsupported, forcing UPD instead Interesting! A join var that isn't let-no-escaped Oops! Entered absent arg absApply: Duff function TELL SIMON: evalAbsence panic! (the `impossible' happened, GHC version 6.4) For basic information, try the `--help' option. magic number mismatch: old/corrupt interface file? Exotic pattern inside meta brackets Can't represent a guarded lambda in Template Haskell Exotic Stmt in meta brackets Can't represent Oxford brackets Can't represent explicit kind signatures yet DsExpr.dsExpr: Infinite parallel array! GHC error in desugarer lookup Cannot desugar this Template Haskell declaration foreign declaration uses deprecated non-standard syntax CPR Analysis tried to take the lub of a function and a tuple GHC's heap exhausted GHC stack-space overflow Precedence out of range Empty record update Type signature given for an expression Qualified name in function definition Malformed context in instance header parse error in data/newtype declaration Type found where type variable expected Malformed context in type or class declaration parse error on input lexical error in string/character literal primitive string literal must contain only characters <= '\\\\xFF\\' invalid character PArse error (possibly incorrect indentation) Can't match unequal length lists Kind error Cannot unify a type variable with a type scheme Unexpected kind unification failure Use -fglasgow-exts to allow GADTs Data constructor does not return its parent type Can't combine named fields with locally-quantified type variables or context Cycle in class declarations (via superclasses) Cycle in type synonym declarations Generic method type is too complex Use -fglasgow-exts to allow multi-parameter classes Too many parameters for class No parameters for class Use -fcontext-stack20 to increase stack size to (e.g.) 20 Use -fallow-incoherent-instances Implicit parameters escape from the monomorphic top-level binding(s) Splices are not allowed in hs-boot files Inaccessible case alternative A lazy (~) pattern connot bind existential type variables Non-type variables in constraint All of the type variables in the constraint are already in scope (at least one must be universally quantified here) At least one of the forall'd type variables mentioned by the constraint must be reachable from the type after the '=>' Ambiguous constraint Kind signature on data type declaration has non-* return kind Malformed constructor signature Illegal deriving item does not have the required strict field(s) No constructor has all these fields Urk infer You need -fglasgow-exts to derive an instance for this class Try -fglasgow-exts for GHC's newtype-deriving extension Multiple default declarations All the type patterns for a generic type constructor must be identical More than one type pattern for a single generic type constructor No explicit method nor default method falls under the monomorphism restriction Illegal overloaded type signature(s) bindings for unlifted types aren't allowed Command stack underflow at command Duplicate instance declarations internal error: scavenge_mark_stack: unimplemented/strange closure type -1368815400 @ 0x2aaaae6981f8 My brain just exploded. internal error: Invalid object in processHeapClosureForDead Urk! Inventing strangely-kinded void TyCon: ZCt{tc a2AN} (* -> *) -> * -> * parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) Inferred type is less polymorphic than expected Kind error Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite kind Can't reify a non-Haskell-98 data constructor Illegal polymorphic type signature in pattern Illegal unlifted type argument Illegal polymorphic type The instance types do not agree with the functional dependencies of the class Unexpected strictness annotation Unexpected type splice Can't splice the polymorphic local variable On Alpha, I can only handle 4 non-floating-point arguments to foreign export dynamic GHC internal error GHC stage restriction the eta-reduction property does not hold even with cunning newtype deriving the newtype is recursive Can't mix generic and non-generic equations for class method The signature contexts in a mutually recursive group should all be identical Functional dependencies conflict between instance declarations There must be at least one non-type-variable in the instance head Illegal constraint Illegal unboxed tuple type as function argument Kinds don't match in type application From-type of Coerce differs from type of enclosed expression foreign declaration uses deprecated non-standard syntax Illegal binding of built-in syntax Duplicate binding in parallel list comprehension Implicit-parameter bindings illegal in a parallel list comprehension adjustor creation not supported on this platform eval_thunk_selector: strange selectee scavenge: unimplemented/strange closure type scavenge_stack: weird activation record found on stack Info table already? ARGH! Jump uses %esi or %edi with -monly-2-regs gzl [on why monads are scary] maybe it's because people look up monad on wikipedia, find the category theory page, and crap themselves hakko most programmers have a lot of religious issues about their work, yes. ihope Laziness is free, but it doesn't always pay off. Oops, I forgot that Djinn doesn't do GADT's. jjuggle I was riding around town and this cop on patrol on a bike rode up next to me and said, "There's always a show off." I offered to teach him to ride and help set up a unicycle patrol squad, but he declined. jlouis Q: When does one know he has programmed too much Haskell? A: When he uses == and /= in everyday IRC chat or when he tries to fix a relationship by passing himself as a continuation joelr the learning curve is far steeper with Haskell but it is far more elegant and readable Fundeps, existential types, HList take a while to grasp kolmodin I would rather lose my left arm than write it in Java kzm My program contains a bug. How ungrateful, after all I've done for it. lambdabot Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a Couldn't match kind `?? -> ? -> *' against `(* -> *) -> * -> *' Of course i'm female lambdabot hasn't said anything memorable lispy I just remembered this dream i had the other morning. I was trying to tell my alarm clock how to snooze by using a list comprehension malcolm I don't believe you need to invoke the full awesome majesty of Template Haskell Most software doesn't need to be fast. But all software needs a fighting chance of correctness malig quantum mechanics actually strikes me as less wierd than lazy evaluation sometimes. at least it disallows time travel I have to admit I'm still stunned when "tying the knot" actually works. it's like I just performed the kind of magic that normally requires a lot more goat's blood mattam [Monads are] much more elegant [than soccer] in general. mikaeli hmm, one national tv station I was watching while eating breakfast crashed with bsod. I guess that's what you get for running windows in production use My friend bought a new laptop; it had MSBLASTER preinstalled. I couldn't believe it either and installed XP and the apps many times, run virus killers and everytime the blaster came back. Everything was packed on a rescue cd. And virus was in m$ works installation files. musasabi no reason to reinvent the whole wheel (usually reinvented wheels end up square) mwc I actually got away with running Haskell through a TeX pretty printer and handing it in as pseudocode ndm the only language i've seen which is ugly at a deeper level than syntax is perl pesco "Scientists Reveal: Human Consciousness Stems From Two Files in Different Directories!" reddi and now i know: IT DOES NOT WORK ALWAYS ;-) samc monads are hard, let's go shopping sethk it's certainly true that you can clobber the stack in C without even getting out of bed in the morning shapr Programming is the Magic Executable Fridge Poetry, it is machines made of thought, fueled by ideas. The legal system is the ultimate denial of service attack. I don't know why the GHC team won't accept my spoonIO patch I've toked on so many lambdas I'm getting dependent types Anyway, I'm just a walking index into the Haskell world. I can tell you a little bit about many things, but I will quickly forward you to the experts for more detail. I am hexed and vexed ;-) Academics are continually chewing pieces off of impossible and making them merely difficult. Windows users are like the wives of alcoholics, they'll take any amount of abuse and come right back. I encourage my competitors to use Windows. GHC has more flags than the UN I've tried to teach people autodidactism, but I've realized they have to learn it for themselves. skew We don't believe in constant factors. Swapping is just a constant factor I think blackdog is right tennin [very #haskell] anyone know of any good books/papers on the application of category theory to databases? tomasz After all, return is only a fancy name for liftM0 :-) twb But, I love my job. It's like being in a rock band. i.e. no pay, but fun. vegai Hey Haskell! Give me that File! -Naah, I'm too lazy. *thinks* I'll give you a cookie if you tell me how many letters that file has! -Oh, ok! vixen If you see this, gentle sir, know that you are being trolled by a poorly configured VixenLove program wilx I mean, besides the murders, it all looks so nice. xahlee The Haskell Logo is the perfection of logos xerox > take 10 lol where lol = "ol" : zipWith (:) (intersperse 'o' $ cycle "l") lol you know, befunge is probably the only language I've seen where you can run code pasted from IRC with the tags still in place ;-)